MODEST meeting 2009-11-25

Transcript
[5:56] Lakhesis Destiny: Hi All

[5:56] Prospero Frobozz: I think it's just you and I here so far

[5:56] Prospero Frobozz: Still a few minutes early; more will come

[5:57] Prospero Frobozz: Oh, wait, I see Marcell here too

[5:57] Lakhesis Destiny: Hi Pros, How is the OpenSim server in Leiden?

[5:57] Prospero Frobozz: We've got a region online on ScienceSim now

[5:58] Prospero Frobozz: It's empty... but it's there!

[5:58] Prospero Frobozz: We'll play with that for a bit I think before bringing the second region online

[5:58] Prospero Frobozz: I realized that it's goign to be slightly complicated because I want to have different configurations for the two. So, I'll have to run two opensim instances, instead of one instance with two regions

[5:59] Lakhesis Destiny: Do you get sufficient support from Erik Deul?

[5:59] Prospero Frobozz: Yes

[5:59] Prospero Frobozz: He's pretty responsive

[5:59] Lakhesis Destiny: Ah, that's good to hear. He is busy, and I always wonder how much time he has for such things.

[5:59] Prospero Frobozz: I think he works late, too, as I've sometimes gotten responses in my afternoon

[6:00] Prospero Frobozz: I haven't asked for too terribly much -- nothing really heavy duty.

[6:00] Lakhesis Destiny: Well, I guess that this opesim thing is more of a hoppy than real work, also

[6:00] Lakhesis Destiny: In general, with Deul: if he can do it directly, it will be done quickly, otherwise it will never be done.

[6:00] Prospero Frobozz: We're working on a proposal to do investigations of data visualization in OpenSim, so it's real work for us :)

[6:01] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah, everything I've needed from him so far has been stuff that could be done easily by somebody with root on the machine... although i'm never sure if there are policy implications when it comes to things like firewall ports.

[6:01] Prospero Frobozz: Hey Storm, alf.

[6:01] '''Storm Nordwind waves

[6''':01] Lakhesis Destiny: Yes, of course. But he is a general sysop for two institutions. He is quite busy. And as long as there is no formal funding for his support it is a hobby for him.

[6:01] Prospero Frobozz: Yikes

[6:01] Pan Numanox: Good morning

[6:02] Kered Juran: hello

[6:02] ffd2 Cyberstar: Hi All

[6:02] Prospero Frobozz: General sysop for two institutions? That's rather overloading him....

[6:02] Mister Jurassic: Good morning.

[6:02] Prospero Frobozz: For your research machines -- are you root on them? Or is that against university policy?

[6:02] Prospero Frobozz: I know that Arjen, et al., didn't have root on the various AMUSE machines.

[6:02] ffd2 Cyberstar: No we don't

[6:02] Lakhesis Destiny: Well, I have a slecial arrangement. I am root, as is mu entire team. Furthermore nobody is rot.

[6:03] Prospero Frobozz: Hurm -- it's kind of mean of them to say you can't have admi privs, and then have one sysop for two institutions

[6:03] Lakhesis Destiny: Yes, it is. But it works fine. He is pretty good, and all the systmes are linux.

[6:03] Prospero Frobozz: I have to admit, if I were a group leader and didn't have the ability to have root on my own machines, I'd get very fussy :)

[6:04] Prospero Frobozz: Piet : do you know if Derek is going to be here today? I don't know his SL name.

[6:04] Kered Juran: I'm here!

[6:04] Prospero Frobozz: Oh! You're Derek :)

[6:04] Kered Juran: Derek = Kered :)

[6:04] Lakhesis Destiny: Well, me too. That's why I bargained to be root, and have by group to have R-prevs.

[6:04] Kered Juran: just noticed MICA realnames group...?

[6:04] Pema Pera: hi everybody, sorry to be late

[6:04] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah -- the roles are full. I have a "MICA realnames 3", but my alt owns taht (I already have 25 groups...!)

[6:05] Lakhesis Destiny: Ha Piet, and hi to all.

[6:05] Prospero Frobozz: I'll invite you after this meeting is over

[6:05] Kered Juran: kk

[6:05] Pema Pera: good to see you here Simon/Lak!

[6:05] Prospero Frobozz: (I'm not in the room with my desktop, so I can't easily log in twice at the moment.)

[6:05] Prospero Frobozz: Hey, so, just so everybody knows --

[6:05] Lakhesis Destiny: Jes, until hae to get Nander out of bed (Nander = RN)

[6:05] Prospero Frobozz: There are two "external support" thingies that go along with these meetings

[6:06] Prospero Frobozz: The first is the MODEST wiki, whose location is on the screen at the front of this auditorium

[6:06] Prospero Frobozz: http://www.manybody.org/wiki

[6:06] Prospero Frobozz: The second is the mailing list, micasimulations@googlegroups.com

[6:06] Prospero Frobozz: Sign yourself up for the mailing list if you're not on it already

[6:06] Prospero Frobozz: And feel free to add yourself as a member to the wiki.

[6:07] Prospero Frobozz: The topic for today is using OpenSim for both establishing a presence and experimentation

[6:07] Prospero Frobozz: Simon has provided a server on which we will be able to run a couple of OpenSim regions

[6:07] Prospero Frobozz: Right now, we're running one

[6:07] Prospero Frobozz: I've connected it to ScienceSim ; the name of the region is "MICA Lobby"

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: If you haven't logged into any OpenSim grids before, they feel much like Second Life

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: Here are instructions for creating an account on ScienceSim and logging into it:

[6:08] ffd2 Cyberstar: rob I cant login to opensim right now

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: http://www.sciencesim.com/wiki/doku.php/gettingstarted

[6:08] Lakhesis Destiny: Is it good or bad that they feel like SL

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: Marcell : how are you trying to log in?

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: Simon : mostly good

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: It's familiar

[6:08] ffd2 Cyberstar: ./secondlif --loginuri &c

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: But we are able to extend it

[6:08] Prospero Frobozz: Marcell, which loginuri are you using?

[6:09] Prospero Frobozz: Also, if --loginuri doesn't work, try -loginuri

[6:09] ffd2 Cyberstar: opensim1.strw.leidenuniv.nl

[6:09] Prospero Frobozz: I think only single dashed worked in the past, in violation of all standards, but I think eventually they made both work

[6:09] Prospero Frobozz: Ah!

[6:09] ffd2 Cyberstar: I can connect through ssh

[6:09] Prospero Frobozz: OK, it's no longer a standalone regino

[6:09] Prospero Frobozz: So the login server is ScienceSim

[6:09] Ico Telling: Hi all

[6:09] Prospero Frobozz: You'll need to make an account on ScienceSim, log in there, and then teleport to MICA Lobby

[6:10] ffd2 Cyberstar: Thanks, I'll try

[6:10] Prospero Frobozz: loginuri is http://grid.sciencesim.com

[6:10] Prospero Frobozz: Anyway, the fact that it "feels like" Second Life means that any building, etc., skills that anybody has will transfer directly over

[6:10] Prospero Frobozz: Just an overview of OpenSim for those of you not familiar with it:

[6:11] Prospero Frobozz: It's designed as a "3d networked immersive applications platform" or something like that.

[6:11] Prospero Frobozz: Think Apache Tomcat : Java Server Apps :: OpenSim : virtual worlds

[6:11] Prospero Frobozz: Or something like that

[6:11] Prospero Frobozz: Many people think of OpenSim as an open source SL clone; really, it's more than that.

[6:11] Prospero Frobozz: It may ahve started that way, and that's certainly the way it's mostly used right now.

[6:12] Prospero Frobozz: However, the architecture is designed to be very modular, so that it's relatively straightforward to replace bits of the system without having to recode the entire thing

[6:12] Prospero Frobozz: It's also designed to be extensible.

[6:12] Prospero Frobozz: So, while by default, what you get is a virtual world that feels much like Second Life, you can do other things wiht it

[6:12] Prospero Frobozz: One example that came out of this workshop last year is the "NewtonPhysics" plugin

[6:12] Prospero Frobozz: Adam & Jeff of Genkii, later modified by Will Farr, replaced the physics engine (that thing that deals with graivty and collisions) with a simple direct N-body code

[6:13] Prospero Frobozz: Prims made physical attract each other via gravity, and basically do an N-body simulation

[6:13] Prospero Frobozz: That's just an example of something you can do in OpenSim relatively straightforwardly

[6:13] Prospero Frobozz: Other things we hope to do in the future are to write modules that will allow efficient and rich data visualization.

[6:13] Prospero Frobozz: Because it's a platform, designed to be something that has applications built on top of it, it will be ultimately much more powerful than Second Life.

[6:14] Prospero Frobozz: (Second Life remains whre all the people are, but at some point in the future there will be a global metaverse that shares a common protocol, and I'm guessing that OpenSim is going to be either the apache, or perhapst he NCSA httpd, of that global metaverse.)

[6:14] Prospero Frobozz: The one region we have right now, "MICA Lobby", is completely empty, and just runs the defaults.

[6:14] Prospero Frobozz: The idea is to have a place on ScienceSim where we could hold events, where people in ScienceSim can see the "public face" of MICA

[6:15] Prospero Frobozz: We'll then do real experimentation with physics engines and importing simulation and visualizatoin data in a neighboring region

[6:15] Prospero Frobozz: ScienceSim is something that's run by Intel, put up for the purposes of the SuperComputing '09 conference that happened this month

[6:15] Prospero Frobozz: Mic Bowman of Intel tells me that Intel has a "soft" commitment to keep it running for at least another year, but he and others are working on getting an independent foundation to give ScienceSim some longevity

[6:15] Pan Numanox: Presumably some of the public stuff (like your talks, Rob) would remain in SL? I'm guessing that there is a balance between attracting people to ScienceSim and losing our casual audience...

[6:16] Prospero Frobozz: Alf : yes, for the forseeable future most of the public stuff will stay in SL, again because that's where all the people are.

[6:16] Prospero Frobozz: I can see this working group, for example, moving over to ScienceSim at some point in the not -too-distant future

[6:16] Prospero Frobozz: ScienceSim is a number of things, but one thing is a "grid", like Second Life is a "grid"

[6:17] Prospero Frobozz: Grid = collection of virtual world regions that share a common map, that can have abutting reginos you can walk betwen, and that share things like user accounts and so forth

[6:17] Prospero Frobozz: Fior instance, you can IM anybody on the same grid as you

[6:17] Prospero Frobozz: Diva's Hypergrid allows user accounts to move between grids, but Hypergrid is not enabled on ScienceSim (since the current incarnation of Hypergrid is a security nightmare)

[6:17] Prospero Frobozz: (diva is working on Hypergrid 2)

[6:18] Prospero Frobozz: so, making an account on ScienceSim is like making an account on Second Life

[6:18] Prospero Frobozz: It is meaningless to say "making an account on OpenSim", just as saying "making an account on Linux" wouldn't mean that you can log in anywhere that's running Linux

[6:18] Kered Juran: afk 5 mins

[6:19] Prospero Frobozz: There are lots of OpenSim grids out there; the two that are most relevant to us are probably ScienceSim and OSGrid; the only reason I mention OSGrid is that it's the closest thing there is to a "main" OpenSim grid. The core developers use that grid for some of their experiments and so forth.

[6:19] Pema Pera: would there be any reason for us to have a presence on OSGrid too?

[6:19] Prospero Frobozz: anybody who wants to, and who has server space, can "just" connect a region to OSGrid. The other day (practicing for the MICA region on Science Sim), I connected a region "Prospero's Island" to OSGrid. No permission or anything needed

[6:19] Prospero Frobozz: Pema : maybe? But right now I would say no

[6:19] Prospero Frobozz: If OSGrid becomes a place that has lots of people, I would say yes

[6:20] Pema Pera: can a sim be part of two grids?

[6:20] Prospero Frobozz: But right now it's a few orders of magnitude down from Second Life

[6:20] Prospero Frobozz: A sim can only be part of one grid, but you can bridge between them with hypergrid

[6:20] Prospero Frobozz: However, I don't think we're going to want to enable hypergrid until a version with more security comes out. And, Mic Bowman of Science Sim doesn't want hypergrid on ScienceSim for the same security reasons

[6:21] Prospero Frobozz: So, for now, ScienceSim is the place that makes the most sense for us to establish a presence, as it's a "themed" grid related to the stuff we do

[6:21] Prospero Frobozz: OSGrid is the wild west :)

[6:21] Lakhesis Destiny: Isn't it Dave Bowman: "It's full of stars".

[6:21] Prospero Frobozz: If at some point we decide we want to put a region on OSGrid, it's very easy to do so

[6:22] Prospero Frobozz: What's more-- and Storm will like this-- if we're running the region, it's straightforward to make a backup of the region state at any time.

[6:22] '''Storm Nordwind smiles

[6''':22] Prospero Frobozz: Indeed, you can then import that region state into a region you run on another grid

[6:22] Pan Numanox: Ah, that's useful

[6:22] Prospero Frobozz: So, if we build a MICA Lobby on ScienceSim, and decide we want a copy of it on OSGrid, that will be easy to do

[6:22] Pema Pera: would it make sense to create a minimal sim on OSgrid, basically a little shop front with a note card about MICA? or would that strain server capacity?

[6:23] Prospero Frobozz: It would only strain server capacity if lots of people came in al at once

[6:23] Kered Juran: back

[6:23] Prospero Frobozz: The thing is, there are lots of sims on OSGrid, but not all that many people, so I'm not sure how much it would really do for advertising purposes.

[6:23] Pema Pera: makes sense, yes

[6:23] Prospero Frobozz: What woudl be better is if we can convince a place on OSGrid that some people already go to let us set up a kiosk or some such :)

[6:24] Storm Nordwind: Better with a targeted audience anyway

[6:24] Pema Pera: thanks for a very clear summary of the whole layout, Pros! It reads like metaverse 101 !!

[6:24] Lakhesis Destiny: I've get go, Guys. ee you all later.

[6:24] Prospero Frobozz: In any event -- we *should* put up tasetful advertisng some places in our Second Life region (i.e. right here) about ScienceSim

[6:24] Prospero Frobozz: Have fun Simon!

[6:24] Prospero Frobozz: Thanks for the server!

[6:25] Prospero Frobozz: Anyway, right now MICA Lobby on ScienceSim is a big blank level empty region.

[6:25] Prospero Frobozz: Storm, Piet mentioned that you might potentially be interested in being the "lead architect" for creating our public face there; would you be?

[6:25] Prospero Frobozz: I thin what we'd want is somethign similar in concept to what StellaNova here is, although obviously it doesn't need to be a copy

[6:25] Storm Nordwind: Yes I might, potentially. ;)

[6:26] Prospero Frobozz: A place where we can put out some public information about MICA, as well as having some meeting areas and so forth.

[6:26] Storm Nordwind: Sure

[6:26] Storm Nordwind: Do you have a time schedule?

[6:26] Prospero Frobozz: There is more power for doing stuff there than you have on a mainland region; for instance, there are no limits on terraforming

[6:26] Prospero Frobozz: No particular schedule.

[6:26] Storm Nordwind: Just one thing to bear in mind: I will be afk for all of January

[6:27] Prospero Frobozz: Also, if you want, you can terraform by creating a greyscale image in your favorite image processing program, where the grey level translates to the height

[6:27] Prospero Frobozz: It's easy to import and export PNG files to turn that image into a height map

[6:27] Pema Pera: perhaps you could put down something simple, to get us started, as a Christmas gift, Storm :-)

[6:27] Prospero Frobozz: (I've playd with that a littel bit.)

[6:27] Storm Nordwind: Sounds very good Pros

[6:27] Prospero Frobozz: Mind you, when I say "it's easy", that means that I can do it from the server console :)

[6:27] Prospero Frobozz: I dont' know how to do it from the client.

[6:27] '''Storm Nordwind chuckles

[6''':27] Prospero Frobozz: But if you shoot me an email, I can do it any time.

[6:27] Storm Nordwind: Cool

[6:28] Prospero Frobozz: There's no economy on ScienceSim; many people think that's awful (since selling stuff is one way that SL got big), but one side effect of that is that it doesn't cost anything to upload textures :)

[6:28] Storm Nordwind: If you can write an outline spec of what you want there (and anything to avoid) I'll take a look and let you know when it can be done

[6:28] Pema Pera: :)

[6:28] Prospero Frobozz: You get a warning that you're about to spend OS$0 to upload a texture

[6:28] Prospero Frobozz: I think we should avoid flying penises

[6:28] Storm Nordwind: That much! :)

[6:29] Prospero Frobozz: (Because peopel would think they were back in Second Life)

[6:29] '''Storm Nordwind chuckles

[6''':29] Pema Pera: what is the going rate fot OS$ to LS$ -- infinite :-) ?

[6:29] Prospero Frobozz: Re: the outline, what do people here think?

[6:29] Prospero Frobozz: Pema : either infinte or zero, depending on which way you go

[6:30] Pema Pera: a meeting room is the first thing, then perhaps a small exhibition area, and outside seating for relaxation :-)

[6:30] Prospero Frobozz: I think that the general description of StellaNova -- a nice place that's a pleasant front-end, that has lots of various meeting areas and such, is the kind of thing we're looking for

[6:30] '''Storm Nordwind nods

[6''':30] Prospero Frobozz: Or, the KIRA Campus, likewise, is the kind of thing we're looking for

[6:30] Pema Pera: and a nice demo area

[6:30] Prospero Frobozz: A meeting area that isn't a clone of, but has a similar tone to, the KIRA Cafe would be great

[6:30] Storm Nordwind: Oh OK

[6:30] Storm Nordwind: That's all doable

[6:30] Pema Pera: Rob, do you have a canned demo in mind? And Kered, do you have something with seesaws or whatever?

[6:30] Prospero Frobozz: But, yes, also a palce where we can set up demos and exhibits and such so that hopefully in the future we'll get walk-in traffic

[6:31] Kered Juran: do the same kinds of prim limits exist in a sciencesim region?

[6:31] Prospero Frobozz: Pema : well, I could try moving the 3-body simulation over. But, it might be more fun to do somethign different.

[6:31] Prospero Frobozz: We can configure the server to have whatever prim limit we want

[6:31] Storm Nordwind: Scripting is identical too?

[6:31] Prospero Frobozz: However, there are always limits.... One limit is server memory. A more stringent limit is probably that if you have too many prims, nobody's video card will be able to handle it when they visit

[6:31] Prospero Frobozz: Mostly identicay.

[6:31] Prospero Frobozz: Not everything will work, but so far every script I've tried to port over has worked

[6:31] Kered Juran: so no arrays? :)

[6:32] Prospero Frobozz: So, yes, supposedly you can script OpenSim in C#

[6:32] Prospero Frobozz: I haven't figured out how to enable that yet, but that's somethign I'd like to figure out

[6:32] Prospero Frobozz: That is -- you can write backend modules. But I *think* you can do inworld scirpting using C# instead of LSL. I haven't seen that in practice yet.

[6:32] Kered Juran: that would be cool

[6:32] Storm Nordwind: LSL will be fine for now

[6:33] Prospero Frobozz: Kered -- for the sorts of physics stuff you'd be interetsed in playing with, ultimately it might be better to think about backend modules. But, yeah, I agree, when writing little UI scripts nad such, it'd be nice to have a "real" language....

[6:33] Kered Juran: kk

[6:33] Prospero Frobozz: Re: logging in to ScienceSim

[6:33] Prospero Frobozz: There are instructions on the page I linked to earlier

[6:33] Prospero Frobozz: http://www.sciencesim.com/wiki/doku.php/gettingstarted

[6:33] Prospero Frobozz: The way I ususally do it is using the Hippo Opensim Viewer

[6:34] Prospero Frobozz: That has a GUI for specifying grids

[6:34] Prospero Frobozz: Alas, the Hippo OpenSim viewer is an orphan project

[6:34] Prospero Frobozz: ...but it still works

[6:34] Storm Nordwind: What about building permissions etc?

[6:34] Kered Juran: would emerald work? (I'm guessing not)

[6:34] Prospero Frobozz: You will need to add ScienceSim to the list of grids, but that's straightfoward; you just add a new grid, and give http://grid.sciencesim.com as the Login URI

[6:34] Prospero Frobozz: Kered : yes, it should, if you give the right -loginuri on the command line

[6:35] Kered Juran: kewl

[6:35] Prospero Frobozz: I'm not sure, but I think Emerald may have imported some of the "new map" stuff from Snowglobe

[6:35] Prospero Frobozz: If so, then the map and minimap may not work on an opensim grid

[6:35] Prospero Frobozz: It can't hurt to try

[6:35] Pan Numanox: How about snowglobe itself?

[6:35] Prospero Frobozz: The worst that happens is that you create an unusual state in your computer's memory that nucleates strange matter and starts the catastrophic collapse of the entire Earth to this new stable state of matter, but that's not very likely

[6:36] Kered Juran: lol

[6:36] Prospero Frobozz: Pan : same thing -- it should work, but map stuff will probably be broken.

[6:36] Prospero Frobozz: http://mjm-labs.com/viewer/

[6:36] Prospero Frobozz: Is the link for the Hippo Opensim Viewer

[6:37] Prospero Frobozz: If any of you have any trouble logging into scienceSim, drop me an email, and I can hopefully help you debug

[6:37] Pema Pera: I have a question about our meeting times: we are meeting at 6 am SLT only to enable Jun Makino to attend, but given that he doesn't come to most sessions, and given that 6 am SLT is very early for Storm and some others, how about moving our time to 8 am SLT? Adam and Jeff, OpenSim core developers in Japan, are real night workers, and are happy to come in then: it'll be 1 am for them :-)

[6:37] Prospero Frobozz: Ah! Well, if Adam and Jeff are happy with it, then it's fine to move it

[6:37] Prospero Frobozz: I thought 6AM was for all of Jun, Adam, Jeff

[6:37] Pema Pera: okay for you, Storm and Derek?

[6:38] Prospero Frobozz: Is 8AM OK for the Leiden folks?

[6:38] Prospero Frobozz: That would be 16:00 UT

[6:38] Prospero Frobozz: which may be getting kind of late afternoon for leiden folks

[6:38] J's Real Toe Men's Belt Sandals L: Dialog timeout. Touch Shoes again.

[6:38] Pema Pera: 5 pm in Holland

[6:38] Storm Nordwind: *am SLT would be very good for me

[6:38] Kered Juran: yes fine

[6:38] Storm Nordwind: *8am

[6:38] Prospero Frobozz: Since we very often talk about AMUSE here, I want to make sure that the meeting time is OK for Arjen, Inti, and Marcell

[6:38] Storm Nordwind: I'm available from 7am SLT onwards on Wednesdays

[6:39] Linguini Mexicola: 16:00 leiden time would be ok

[6:39] Pema Pera: we could make it 7 am

[6:39] Pema Pera: which is 16:00 in Leiden

[6:39] Prospero Frobozz: 7am would be 15:00 UT, which is 16:00 leiden

[6:40] Prospero Frobozz: Leiden is 1 hour ahead of UT, yes?

[6:40] Pema Pera: yes

[6:40] Storm Nordwind: yes

[6:40] Pema Pera: in winter

[6:40] Prospero Frobozz: Let's do 7AM SLT then

[6:40] Pan Numanox: 7am SLT might be a problem for Steve and I... we both have a class then

[6:40] Linguini Mexicola: 17:00 is also ok for me

[6:40] Prospero Frobozz: D'oh!

[6:40] Prospero Frobozz: Alf : is that just through December? Or is that also in the Spring semester?

[6:40] Pema Pera: if 17:00 is okay in Leiden, we should do that then

[6:40] J's Real Toe Men's Belt Sandals R: Dialog timeout. Touch Shoes again.

[6:40] Pan Numanox: I won't starting in Jan, but I think that Steve will for Jan-Mar

[6:40] Prospero Frobozz: Hurm

[6:40] Linguini Mexicola: Arjen may have a 17:00 problem

[6:41] Prospero Frobozz suspects Arjen is looking at a different window on his computer :)

[6:41] '''Storm Nordwind chuckles

[6''':41] Pema Pera: we can type AMUSE a few times. ..

[6:41] Pema Pera: AMUSE !

[6:41] Prospero Frobozz: Alf, which class is it that Steve has

[6:41] Pema Pera: AMUSE !

[6:41] Prospero Frobozz: I bet he can blow it off :)

[6:42] Mister Jurassic: lol

[6:42] J's Real Toe Men's Belt Sandals R: Dialog timeout. Touch Shoes again.

[6:42] Prospero Frobozz: We can get a big cardboard standup made of Steve, and put a tape recorder behidn it

[6:42] Remy Vespucciano: HI!

[6:42] Pan Numanox: Steve teaches his grad mathematical methods class MWF 10-11. If the schedule is the same as last year, that carries over to Winter quarter as well.

[6:42] Prospero Frobozz: "tape recorder" -- how 1980's! I mean, we can put a mp3 player with big speakers behind it that has his voice

[6:42] Pan Numanox: Pros, I think that's my job :D

[6:42] Prospero Frobozz: Arjen : if we were to move this meeting to 17:00 leiden time, would that be too late for you?

[6:43] Prospero Frobozz: We're talking about moving htis an hour or two later, since the Japan folks who might actually come are night owls (Adam and Jeff)

[6:43] Remy Vespucciano: Yes, that would be too late,

[6:44] Prospero Frobozz: OK. Let's go with 7AM SLT / 10AM EST / 15:00 UT / 17:00 Leiden then

[6:44] Prospero Frobozz: After this current term ends, Alf will be able to come

[6:44] Ico Telling: OK for me

[6:44] Prospero Frobozz: He and Ico can represent Steve

[6:44] Pema Pera: 16:00 Leiden you mean

[6:44] Prospero Frobozz: sorry!

[6:44] Remy Vespucciano: 16:00 is fine!

[6:44] Prospero Frobozz: 7AM SLT / 10AM EST / 15:00 UT / 16:00 Leiden

[6:44] Storm Nordwind: yay!

[6:45] Prospero Frobozz: Until stupid daylight savings time stars again. I really think we need to circularize the Earth's orbit so we don't have to deal with daylight savings time

[6:45] Pema Pera: align the spin you mean

[6:45] Pema Pera: no seasons

[6:45] Storm Nordwind: We'll just move the US closer to the equator. That should do it

[6:45] Pan Numanox: That would probably be easier than fixing the DST laws

[6:45] Pema Pera: :)

[6:46] Prospero Frobozz: Seasons are OK -- it's the fact that the Earth get's a little ahead sometimes, and a little behind sometimes, because of the ellipticity of the orbit, that leads us to needing daylight savings time

[6:46] Prospero Frobozz: s/get's/gets/

[6:46] '''Storm Nordwind has worked on the equator before with no changes of sunrise/sunset and few seasons

[6''':47] Prospero Frobozz: Well, my other plan of flattening out the Earth to elimiate time zones altogether would work

[6:47] '''Storm Nordwind reaches for a very large hammer...

[6''':47] Prospero Frobozz: ...with a short handle...

[6:47] Storm Nordwind: I'll talk to Thor

[6:48] Pema Pera: creationist may fund MICA if we promote a flat earth. . ..

[6:48] '''Storm Nordwind laughs

[6''':48] Pema Pera: *ts

[6:48] Prospero Frobozz: Anyway, I'm starting to get sick, so I may duck out 10 minutes early. If you're interested, make yourself an account on scienceSim and look around.

[6:48] Prospero Frobozz: Storm : I haven't fully figured out how to set the group permissions and such so tha tyou can build there, but I'll work that out.

[6:48] Prospero Frobozz: Let me know your ScienceSim account name when you've made one

[6:48] Storm Nordwind: Cool. Thanks Pros. Take it easy

[6:49] Pema Pera: thanks a lot, Pros, get well soon!

[6:49] Mister Jurassic: Feel better Rob.

[6:49] Pema Pera: I'll duck out too

[6:49] '''Prospero Frobozz thinks it's unfortunate that he's getting sick the day his mom is coming into town for thanksgvigin *and* five days before the NSF proposal is due

[6''':49] Prospero Frobozz: OK, I'll see you all next week!

[6:49] Pema Pera: thank you, Storm and Derke, for joining us!

[6:49] Kered Juran: you bet!

[6:49] Mister Jurassic: Thanks for the info. See you next week.

[6:49] Pema Pera: And thank you especially Storm for helping us homestead!!

[6:49] Prospero Frobozz: Derek : email me at rknop@pobox.com, and we'll chat sometime about fun physics epxeriments in OpenSim

[6:50] Kered Juran: hehe kk

[6:50] Pema Pera: bye everyone

[6:50] '''Storm Nordwind waves

[6''':50] ffd2 Cyberstar: bye

[6:50] Pan Numanox: bye all

[6:50] Remy Vespucciano: bye

[6:50] Linguini Mexicola: bye

[6:50] Kered Juran: bye!

[6:50] Mister Jurassic: take care

[6:50] Ico Telling: bye