MicaSim meeting 20090423

[7:03] Lagrange Euler: Hi Pros!

[7:03] Prospero Frobozz: hey

[7:04] Prospero Frobozz: how goes?

[7:04] Lagrange Euler: OK. Are we doing voice?

[7:04] Pema Pera: we normally do text here

[7:04] Prospero Frobozz: I think we decided to do text for these meetings for a while

[7:05] Pema Pera: to have a transcript for those not coming

[7:05] Pema Pera: Rob, thank you for a great summary email

[7:05] Pema Pera: I think it is a good idea, to try for a kind of workshop first

[7:05] Pema Pera: before starting a whole summer school

[7:06] Prospero Frobozz: I was at the Kira meeting yesterday morning, and there was some kibbitzing about the resistance people see for getting others to even try Second Life

[7:06] Pema Pera: yeah, it's very hard

[7:06] Pema Pera: I have almost given up. . ..

[7:06] Lagrange Euler: And the larger the event, the harder, I'd say.

[7:06] Pema Pera: it is sooooo much easier to work with people already in SL !

[7:06] Prospero Frobozz: Lagrange : well, yes and no... there's always statistics.

[7:06] Pema Pera: why harder?

[7:07] Pema Pera: there is the simple threshold. ..

[7:07] Pema Pera: no time, no interest to spend hours learning something new. . ..

[7:07] Lagrange Euler: From the point of view of our colleagues, SL is best suited to meetings like this, less so to extended events, like conferences.

[7:07] Pema Pera: hmmmmm, not sure

[7:07] Prospero Frobozz: WEll, if you contact 50 people and say, hey, try this neat thing!, they won't pay as much attention as if you contact an individual and really give them a sense of individual contact. I've seen the same thing in emailing co-workers to try and get them to look at a bug....

[7:07] Pema Pera: it *should* be like that but. . . not sure

[7:07] Prospero Frobozz: Right, so for a conference, I'm not sure I'd want to do an all-day every-day kind of thing. For one, wearing the headset that long gets hard on the ears :)

[7:08] Pema Pera: hehehe

[7:08] Prospero Frobozz: But if we did something with a couple of 1-2 hour events over the course of several days, that might work? Dunno.

[7:08] Pema Pera: or one half-day event

[7:08] Lagrange Euler: But think of all the other things that go on at conferences that SL can't provide.

[7:08] Eamu Godenot: Something like a week/half-week's worth of "lunch" meetings?

[7:08] Prospero Frobozz: Right, so maybe we have to be careful calling it a "conference"... the goal is to set up connections to what people are comfortable with withotu setting up expectations for things that aren't there.... :)

[7:09] Eamu Godenot: "Series of talks?"

[7:09] Pema Pera: question is what content

[7:09] Prospero Frobozz: Perhaps... I think that the term "conference" might actually be OK, because it does attract things. We should point out explicitly that there won't be dinners, but also that you don't have to travel.

[7:10] Eamu Godenot: Well, Pema, as you were saying, it's easiest to deal with people already in SL.

[7:10] Prospero Frobozz: Right! That's the hard question :) I would think that a few killer things should be an introduction to MICA, and *definitely* a workshop on the N-body stuff -- e.g. Will could reprise the talk he gave here earlier

[7:10] Eamu Godenot: What about a MICA conference.

[7:10] Lagrange Euler: As Douglas said, not traveling is not necessarily an attraction.

[7:10] Prospero Frobozz: Lagrange : agreed... but we can sell it on "the cost in time and money is so much less that it can't hurt to try."

[7:10] Eamu Godenot: All the professionals in MICA give a talk on their current work/something interesting.

[7:10] Pema Pera: the one example we've had so far is what George threw together when I visited him in February

[7:11] Prospero Frobozz: That is, whereas you have often have to decide if you're going to conference A or conference B, you don't have to skip any real conference in order to go to this one.

[7:11] Lagrange Euler: current work/something interesting -- is that an and or an or?

[7:11] Pema Pera: but that would argue against an all-day thing, Pros

[7:11] Pema Pera: as you said earlier

[7:12] Eamu Godenot: Well, I think it's an or....

[7:12] Eamu Godenot: As in: you don't have to present something published---it could be a summary of work in progress on some problem.

[7:12] Prospero Frobozz: Pema : yeah... I'm not sure an all-day thing is right. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. An all-day thing does require more time commitment, and does rule out other random things peopl ehave to do during the day.

[7:12] Eamu Godenot: Re: all-day. I agree with Pros.

[7:12] Eamu Godenot: I always have events here, and often they would take precedence over a virtual conference.

[7:13] Lagrange Euler: I think the main attraction is getting together for a short period of time with people who have a common interest. That's something you don't get to do, especialy in a small institution.

[7:13] Eamu Godenot: It's a lot easier to set aside several smaller blocks of time.

[7:13] Pema Pera: how about lining up a bunch of students, all working on N-body problems, giving each of them 20 minutes or so. . ..

[7:13] Pema Pera: three from Amsterdam, one or two each from Drexel and Tokyo

[7:13] Pema Pera: one from Edinburgh

[7:13] Pema Pera: one from Derek in Maryland

[7:14] Pema Pera: say 8 in total

[7:14] Prospero Frobozz: Pema : I think that'd be a great part of it. I'm thinking of a cosmology conference that was held at Vanderbilt a few years ago, and managed to get a lot of people there. There were some students talking, but also profs, giving updates, etc. If we could get some people to present some of the latest of what's going on in N-body, combined with student talks, combined with some SL-specific presentations (e.g. the OpenSim work), that might make a good mix

[7:14] Pema Pera: that's about three hours

[7:14] Lagrange Euler: None of my students show much interest in SL. This would be a chore for them.

[7:14] Prospero Frobozz: I would probably say a mix rather than just focusing on student talks.

[7:14] Eamu Godenot: I agree with Pros.

[7:14] Prospero Frobozz: Lagrange : but students also think it's a chore to do journal clubs, or to give presentations to the Univ. faculty about their current research, and we stil lmake them do that :)

[7:14] You decline Izabela Jaworower, Music Island Spring Concert from A group member named Kate Miranda.

[7:15] Pema Pera: ah, Lagrange, but think about exposure! For students anything that gets them into the lime light is a good thing

[7:15] Lagrange Euler: Who in this group is hiring?

[7:15] Prospero Frobozz: I guess part of what I'm thinking with a conference is that we're not asking anyody for a long-term commitment.

[7:15] Pema Pera: exactly

[7:16] Prospero Frobozz: That is, people who might thing, oh, I don't want to get involved in a weekly worshop, might still come to check it out if they believe that there will be a decent collection of researchers with whom they would value connecting.

[7:16] Pema Pera: Lagrange, visibility is a percolating thing -- not a one-shot hiring

[7:16] Pema Pera always enjoys Lagrange's role of devil's advocate :-)

[7:18] Eamu Godenot: Well, here we had a very successful "Postdoc symposium" about a month ago.

[7:18] Lagrange Euler: Well, we need a devil's advocate. We have to ask, what is the purpose of such a meeting? Educating students, networking, promoting MICA? (I guess you'll say all...)

[7:18] Eamu Godenot: But, one of the reasons it was so successful was that there was major faculty buy-in.

[7:18] Prospero Frobozz: So, to construct this, I'd have a 1/2 hour "introduction to Second Life and MICA", a 1-hour "Interactive Visualization of N-body Simulations" (i.e. Will or Adam/Jeff on OpenSim work), Steve's Globular Cluster talk (as a latest research thing), and then try to get some other folks who are interested in this general field to come and give talks as part of the convference. Also have a working group if there's some topic worth discussing. Finally, time for 8 students to give 20-minute presentations on their own research.

[7:18] Pema Pera: oh, I agree, I meant it in a positive sense, Lagrange -- I'm glad yuo do!

[7:19] Pema Pera: to follow up on the "what's in it for the students":

[7:19] Prospero Frobozz: I think *our* primary motivation here is to get people interested in MICA so that we can build a group that will really be able to do some of the other "real" goals, that is, build a research community that will allow for rich connections independent of geographic location and travel budgets.

[7:19] Prospero Frobozz: That is, to (a) demonstrate the potential of the mediujm, and (b) convince some people to at least try it to find out if they like it before they reject it without having tried it first

[7:19] Pema Pera: if someone is working on globular cluster dynamics, and can talk for an audience that has Simon and Douglas and Jun and all of us there, that wouldn't hurt their visibility and hence their career, to say the least !

[7:20] Pema Pera: so let us pick a list of people to *personally* invite

[7:20] Pema Pera: I mean each one will be personally approached by us

[7:20] Pema Pera: as participants

[7:21] Pema Pera: and also a list of speakers

[7:21] Prospero Frobozz: So I could personally approach Scott Hughes (who does relativity, but could talk about some nuerical relativity results), and Kelly Holley-Bochelmann (who has always expressed "interest in principle")

[7:21] Ico Telling: Hi all sorry I joined late. Are you talking about organizing a general workshop/conference

[7:21] Ico Telling: ?

[7:21] Pema Pera: yes

[7:22] Ico Telling: no specific topic, right?

[7:22] Pema Pera: shall we draft a rough program?

[7:23] Pema Pera: I think a topic is best, like stellar dynamics of dense stellar systems

[7:23] Pema Pera: to keep it focused and coherent

[7:23] Ico Telling: yes I agree

[7:23] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah, I think that's more likely to draw people than a more general thing -- a more general thing only makes sense if it's either huge, or if there's an ulterior motive that *everybody* buys into

[7:23] Prospero Frobozz: We have an ulterior motive, but only we buy into it :)

[7:23] Ico Telling: sorry...klast question and then I will not interrupt anymore..

[7:24] Ico Telling: what date would the workshop would be?

[7:24] Pema Pera: Okay: George 15 minutes about MICA, then me 15 minutes about ACS and our weekly workshop here, and Steve about MODEST and Simon about MUSE, each 15 minutes, would that be a good start?

[7:24] Prospero Frobozz: We haven't figured that out yet

[7:24] Ico Telling: ok thanks and sorry for intrrupting

[7:25] Pema Pera: np Ico :)

[7:25] Prospero Frobozz: I would have an introductory remarks section that's sort of throwaway, but still interesting

[7:25] Prospero Frobozz: (A stand-up comedian or something :) )

[7:25] Prospero Frobozz: REason

[7:25] Pema Pera: ah, your role, Pros!

[7:25] Prospero Frobozz: lots of us are going to have to individually help new folks to SL (if we're lucky and get them) figure out hwo to get voice working

[7:26] Lagrange Euler: Simon still hasn't figured that out...

[7:26] Prospero Frobozz: Best if we can do that before the real "meat" begins... but we have to trick people into being there early enough so we have time to help them if they need it.

[7:26] Ico Telling: I think all the speakers should have been in SL well before the day of the workshop...not just a few minutes before.

[7:26] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah, the speakers should be

[7:26] Prospero Frobozz: But we're going to need to help the other participants

[7:27] Ico Telling: oh you are right even to just attend some help will be needed although much less than for speakers

[7:27] Pema Pera: so how about four classes of activities: 1) get your voice working; 2) general intros (as I just sketched); 3) one or 3 full research talks; 4) a bunch of short student talks?

[7:27] Prospero Frobozz: Pema, yes, that sounds good

[7:27] Eamu Godenot: Yes---that's a nice balance.

[7:27] Prospero Frobozz: Re: Full research talks, Steve's Globular Cluster talk that he already gave to the seminar would work

[7:28] Prospero Frobozz: Also, Will and/or Jeff/Adam should *defeinitely* talk about OpenSim, as that's something that's "hey cool", and also specific to this medium

[7:28] Pema Pera: and half a dozen helpers from the mica pool who can assist individuals via IM with voice

[7:28] Pema Pera: yes and yes

[7:28] Eamu Godenot: Yep.

[7:28] Pema Pera: and Pros should give an intro talk about SL

[7:28] Pema Pera: so how about four intro talks: George, Pros, me, Simon

[7:29] Pema Pera: about MICA, SL, this workshop, MUSE

[7:29] Ico Telling: if it is to be a real 'research' workshop on dense stellar systems we need a full program of talks on that

[7:29] Pema Pera: then two main talks, by Steve and by Will

[7:29] You decline TLE - Creative Showcase For Writers from A group member named Leighlee Trafalgar.

[7:29] Lagrange Euler: (Enrico is actually lead author on the material I covered...)

[7:29] Prospero Frobozz: OK -- either of you could give the talk :)

[7:29] Pema Pera: okay, Enrico and Will

[7:29] Pema Pera: and Steve, you could give intro on MODEST

[7:29] Eamu Godenot: Pema, it might be better to get Adam/Jeff to cover the OpenSim stuff.

[7:29] Lagrange Euler: I am working principally on MUSE (in the context of my new GPU cluster) these days.

[7:29] Eamu Godenot: They've been working on it more than I have....

[7:30] Pema Pera: I've never heard Adam or Jeff say a single word on voice yet, Eamu. . ..

[7:30] Eamu Godenot: True.

[7:30] Eamu Godenot: Well, in any case, I can collaborate with them on the talk.

[7:30] Prospero Frobozz: Will : you have demonstrated an abiilty to give a good talk on the topic :)

[7:30] Pema Pera: Steve, how about you intro on MUSE and Simon on Grid computing?

[7:30] Lagrange Euler: That's certainly doable.

[7:30] Pema Pera: yes, and yes, Eamu

[7:30] Pema Pera: Okay, I think we have a program!

[7:31] Prospero Frobozz: The next trick is figuring out how to get the students we've listed....

[7:31] Pema Pera: Meanwhile, I think I'd like to get some sleep; it's almost midnight in Japan, and I arrived here yesterday, with lots of jetlag. . ..

[7:31] Prospero Frobozz: Yikes

[7:31] Prospero Frobozz: OK

[7:31] Pema Pera: it seems like we have a skeleton program

[7:31] Ico Telling: Ok we can continue next week

[7:31] Pema Pera: (good thing we used text!!!)

[7:31] Lagrange Euler: And I have class soon, so I'll have to skip out too...

[7:31] Prospero Frobozz: Re: timing, we do have to make sure that we don't conflict with the AAS...!

[7:32] Eamu Godenot: Pema, should we propose a date?

[7:32] Eamu Godenot: Like: "middle of June"

[7:32] Pema Pera: okay, let's keep workign on it -- we can continue through email

[7:32] Prospero Frobozz: And, if there are any other likely-to-be-widely-attended-by-our-target-audience conferences, we need to avoid those too

[7:32] Pema Pera: how about late June?

[7:32] Lagrange Euler: Late June would be better.

[7:32] Pema Pera: Douglas and I will be visiting Kyoto starting June 22

[7:32] Prospero Frobozz: late June sounds good to me

[7:32] Eamu Godenot: I don't know of any conflicts in late June.

[7:32] Pema Pera: I can make sure Douglas will be attending, as well as a bunch of others in Kyoto :)

[7:33] Prospero Frobozz: Aha!

[7:33] Eamu Godenot: Excellent.

[7:33] Prospero Frobozz: Yes, any tricks we can use to get people to show up would be good.

[7:33] Lagrange Euler: What time of day are we thinking of, in that case?

[7:33] Prospero Frobozz: how late will people in Kyoto stay up for this?

[7:33] Pema Pera: that's a BIG problem

[7:33] Ico Telling: good question!

[7:33] Lagrange Euler: Morning EST, evening JST?

[7:33] Pema Pera: VERY BIG problem

[7:33] Prospero Frobozz: If we start at 7am, we're going to throw out the west coast of the USA

[7:33] Pema Pera: it would mean several days, two hours each, rather than one full day, or even half a day

[7:34] Pema Pera: if we start later than 7 am, we loose all of Japan

[7:34] Pema Pera: and australia and china :-)

[7:34] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah, I think that spreading it over 3-4 days, 2 hours each, is probably better anyway in the sense of not wearing anybody out

[7:34] Pema Pera: Japan meaning Jun and Douglas and me and Jeff and Adam

[7:34] Pema Pera: and various students and postdocs

[7:34] Eamu Godenot: It has the advantage of letting people dodge around local committments, too.

[7:34] Prospero Frobozz: Pema : on the other side, what time SLT in the afternoon/evening could we start to keep Japan? Of course, that loses Europe....

[7:34] Pema Pera: bad to loose Europe

[7:35] Prospero Frobozz: 7am is OK for Central and Eastern time

[7:35] Pema Pera: Pacific is the biggest body of water -- so that has to be night time

[7:35] Lagrange Euler: We could all go to Japan!

[7:35] Prospero Frobozz: heh

[7:35] Pema Pera: hence early morning in California and late night in Japan

[7:35] Prospero Frobozz: that sort of defeats the purpose :)

[7:35] Lagrange Euler: Yup!

[7:35] Pema Pera: great idea Lagrange!

[7:35] Pema Pera: even 7 to 9 SLT means 11 pm till 1 am in Japan

[7:35] Pema Pera: far from ideal

[7:35] Lagrange Euler: We all travel half way around the planet to have a virtual meeting in the same time zone...

[7:35] Pema Pera: would 6 to 8 SLT work?

[7:36] Prospero Frobozz: That probably rules out mountain time too

[7:36] Eamu Godenot: That time-slot works for me, in general.

[7:36] Eamu Godenot: But it sucks for Pros.

[7:36] Prospero Frobozz: Is OK for Eastern, can be OK for central for people

[7:36] Prospero Frobozz: No, 8am my time is fine for me personally

[7:36] Prospero Frobozz: But I know other people object to 8am

[7:36] Prospero Frobozz: :)

[7:36] Lagrange Euler: 6-8 SLT is good for me.

[7:36] Pema Pera: 6-8 SLT would mean 10 pm - midnight in Japan

[7:37] Prospero Frobozz: I know George will object, as our west-coast representative

[7:37] Pema Pera: well, we can do a poll. . ..

[7:37] Lagrange Euler: I cant say I cared much for this meeting tie while I was in SB.

[7:37] Pema Pera: anyway, I'll get some sleep -- let's keep MUSEing. . ..

[7:37] Prospero Frobozz: OK

[7:37] Lagrange Euler: Off to class (OTC?)

[7:37] Pema Pera: and let's keep scheming by email!

[7:37] Pema Pera: bfn

[7:37] Prospero Frobozz: OK

[7:37] Pema Pera: thanks for coming here!

[7:37] Prospero Frobozz: have fun everybody

[7:37] Eamu Godenot: Adios, Pema.

[7:37] Ico Telling: bye

[7:38] Ico Telling: rob

[7:38] Ico Telling: I think Michele will contact you and Troy for his talk tomorrow

[7:38] Ico Telling: or maybe he has already contacted you

[7:38] Prospero Frobozz: OK, sounds good -- tell hiim to email me

[7:38] Prospero Frobozz: I haven't heard from him yet

[7:39] Ico Telling: ok I'll send him an e-mail now. Thank you very much.

[7:39] Prospero Frobozz: OK, talk to you later